Agreed. God is relational and experiential. He relates to His creation through relationships and experiences. However, our experiences with the creator should line up to the truth about who He is. He has revealed to us His character. He has made the way (to justification) plain. But his relational capability with His creation is infinite – and not bound to any one man’s experience.

Blessings!

To clarify – you are stating that the Bureau of Land Management is not involved in organized crime – right?
)

Your comments puzzle me? This is not Paul L’s website.

Blessings!

I understand you were involved in leadership at CC for 14 yrs.

I got saved at CCSD when Pastor Bryan Newberry and Greg Opean came knocking at my door in 1987.

I attend CCSD for 13 yrs until moving to WI where I now attend a Baptist church.

The problem I have with this website is your motive. I mean don’t you think it is up to each person before the Lord where they decide to attend church and get fed? My reason for leaving was because of relocation. While I do not think everything is perfect in any church, I did not bad mouth the church or its leadership or its people.

That my friend is where is think you are sewing discord amongst the brethern.

how can you possibly say you learned a lot by the teaching on one hand then call it a cult on the other?

I pray you can be happy where you currently reside and I sure hope you do not bad mouth that Pastor or church when or if you leave.

I would call you a blessed subtraction. I wouldn’t want you in my church if you were doggin the Pastor and I certainly wouldn’t call you to ask where you went either.

Sheila Froehlich

WI

Surprisingly, I do not disagree with most of what you have said. Democracy was never God’s idea. In fact the idea is outright absurd. If the majority of the people (51%) say something is true – then it becomes truth. This is why we see the moral and economic decline in our country today. Because the majority is rewriting truth.

But if you’ll look into the story of the Exodus – the Moses Model was never God’s idea either. It was God’s compromise with His people. He wanted to rule them Himself, but when He revealed Himself to them, they cried out for Him to stop. “Only speak to Moses, and then let Him speak to us.” That was the desire of the people. God’s desire was personal relationship with each of His children – with no middle man.

If you read further, God also was opposed to the idea of a monarchy – and gave a stern warning about the serious and malevolent outcome from having one. Never-the-less, the people were tired of being led by a God that they couldn’t see, and would rather be led by a man (who they could put the burden of blame on!)

Christians who have a problem with authority really need to go back and read the Book again, because an underlying plot – is that it all goes back to power and authority. The fall of Lucifer – the fall of Man – as well as the redemption of man.

However, I believe many people that have a problem with authority, do so because they have been abused by it. We don’t understand authority. We don’t understand power. And we get the two confused. God gives authority to men in His kingdom (His government), but whenever He gives authority it is for a specific purpose, and has specific limitations. God does not place authority in pastors to have power over the flock. He places authority in pastors to have power over the wolf to protect the flock. He places authority in pastors to have power over the darkness – and to set those in captivity free, and then to enable them to continue walking in freedom. Sadly, pastors (and lay people alike) view the pastor’s authority as absolute in the lives of the flock. His authority (or power if you will) may not be questioned. To do so is to question God Himself – and nearly an unpardonable sin.

You said:

All the opportunities in the Kingdom may be laid at their feet and it will all be rejected because they cannot humble themselves enough to work along side another Christian over whom they have no veto power.

And I agree with this statement to a point – but I would like to add that the same should apply to the pastor or leader. He does not sit on a throne. He may and will be wrong at times. He is not elevated above the people he is to lead, that they too cannot speak into his life. In fact he is not at all elevated above the people he was given authority to lead, he is actually placed below them. His authority is to lay down his life for the sheep. He becomes a mere stepping stone for his sheep to be able to see the kingdom of God become a reality in their lives. If pastors would understand and model this form of leadership – then the sheep would be better equipped and more eager to follow.

The problem of authority is rooted from the top and goes down – because in God’s Kingdom the top is on the bottom. His kingdom is upside down, and seems unconventional. It’s principles and values fly in the face of our modern day corporations with their CEO’s and CFO’s. And sadly that is many times the structure that exists in our own churches. The sheep today are no different then they were in Moses’ or Samuel’s day. They would rather God speak to a man for them, rather than hear from Him themselves. And the reason for this is truly sad – because the sheep are lazy, and don’t want to hear from God themselves. Sad because, if God speaks through a shepherd, then they can blame the shepherd when things go wrong. Sad because, shepherds feed off the desire of the sheep and love the place of power (not authority) that they are given. And that is truly sad.

[Aside - I say power because, power comes from the people - authority comes from God. People cannot give authority to a pastor - they can only give power.]

Welcome! I believe that if anyone is on a quest for real truth – will ultimately find Jesus. After all He is the way, the Truth and the life. He is the embodiment of truth. Many people are not seeking truth. They seek what fits into or justifies their own lifestyle.

Thanks for stopping by!

If there were ever a church leadeship structure with no biblical support, it is the congregational type. Biblical history bears out the truth that the majority of God’s people are AWAYS wrong. They persecute and kill the prohets!! The truth has never come to God’s people through a majority vote.

Why would anyone want to be a part of a Calvary Chapel, or any church for that matter, if they do not believe in their teachings?

Apparently, for many christians (as is evidenced from this blog) engaging in a truly democratic process by voting with thier feet is not enough for them. They want the tail to wag the dog. As soon as they get a few Bible verses under their belt, they begin to believe that every thought that comes into their head is the sanctified will of God. They soon forget that God saved them, fed them and provided them with spiritual nourishment through the very church they are now criticizing.

Those of you who cannot agree with some aspect of their teaching, have two options: either ask God for the grace to put it aside and continue to work together in harmony or leave the fellowship. However, if you decide to leave, you will find that although the issues you will find to disagree with will be different in your new church, you will still be faced with only these two options. Submit or leave. In a congreagtional setting you may be able to cause a bigger stink and a lot more damage, which will ehance your self-esteem, and perhaps you will even get your way, but make no mistake about it, your pride will undermine every good and perfect work the Lord intended for you to do.

Opportunities for ministry and service exist more abundantly in Calvary Chapels than in almost any other church. At Calvary, you may exercise all your power and influence to further the work of the Lord. But what irks some christians to no end is that they have no (zero) power over the pastor. All the opportunites in the Kingdom may be laid at their feet and it will all be rejected because they cannot humble themselves enough to work along side another Christian over whom they have no veto power. Truly sad.

Alex